maybe the crazy beats start from the odd time drum beats??

lets talk about that,
thanks

I know that they did some tracks in 7/8 time so perhaps that’s how the beats came about

Yeah, that’s one of the nice things about Shpongle, they’re not afraid to explore odd time signatures - not that common in most electronic music.  I’m at work so I can’t listen right now, but I believe Monster Hit is partially in 5/4 and I know I’ve heard 6/4 somewhere on Nothing Lasts.  There was that cool phase shift in Divine Moments of Truth from 6/8 to 4/4.

I reckon part of what makes Shpongle so interesting, diverse and interesting is the different time signature.  A step away from 4/4 electronica is very welcome in my eyes!

we just did a younger brother track in 9/8 - THAT was a headfuck!
I love 7/8 sounds very cyclical and natural if you get the beat right… and awkward if not…. my favourite beat to play on a drumkit, for sure…
5/4 also good if you have a nice riff….
4/4 and 6/8 are so easy with computers….
by the way, does anyone know what the lower number means? what’s the difference between 7/8 and 7/4 ?

I’m not wizard when it comes to beats, and by no means follow any traditional standard.
But here’s what I gather about it.

*/4 = Each * is one Quarter note
*/8 = Each * is one Eight note

So for 7/4…
Each measure would ‘traditionally’ be counted “One Two Three Four Five Six Seven” “One Two Three Four Five Six Seven”
and for 7/8…
Each measure would ‘traditionally’ be counted “One and Two and Three and Four” “One and Two and Three and Four”

From a “traditional” standpoint, they would have different feels.
Each have 7 ‘pulses’ per measure, but in 7/8 the “ands” would be the downbeat, and the Numbers would be the upbeat.

But, there are NO RULES. And quite honestly, it either sounds good…or it doesn’t.

I’m working on a psydub track in 15/16…
Lemme tell ya, it’s a bitch.  But VERY fun to play with.
It opens the door to a lot of unique and obscure rhythmic options.

Hallucinogen - 02 October 2009 03:08 AM

by the way, does anyone know what the lower number means? what’s the difference between 7/8 and 7/4 ?

I believe it’s how many beats are in each bar and which note value constitutes one beat.
the lower number is the note value which represents one beat (the beat unit)
the upper number is how many such beats there are in a bar.

Hia! From the samples, it seems like “The Invisible Man in a Fluorescent Suit” is 7/8?

Cloudwalker - 02 October 2009 04:18 AM

*/4 = Each * is one Quarter note
*/8 = Each * is one Eight note

So for 7/4…
Each measure would ‘traditionally’ be counted “One Two Three Four Five Six Seven” “One Two Three Four Five Six Seven”
and for 7/8…
Each measure would ‘traditionally’ be counted “One and Two and Three and Four” “One and Two and Three and Four”

Erm, that doesn’t seem right to me. 7/8 would still be counted “One-Two-Three-Four-Five-Six-Seven” since it still has 7 beats per measure, but it would be counted twice as fast as 7/4 (assuming both are set to the same tempo) since eighth note beats take up half the amount of time of quarter note beats. If the 7/8 track were half the tempo of the 7/4 track, the difference on computer sequencer would be functionally nothing. Of course, the difference in terms of music notation would still be there. Furthermore, if you had a 7/4 track at 120 BPM and a 14/8 track at 60 BPM, there would be no discernible difference in either the sound or notation.

But see, that’s just the problem.
You’re looking at it from a sequencer standpoint.

Look at it from a live ‘organic’ standpoint.
They are counted completely different. This then translates to a different beat and feel.
Especially when you start adding live “groove” and swing.

Cloudwalker - 12 October 2009 11:33 AM

But see, that’s just the problem.
You’re looking at it from a sequencer standpoint.

Look at it from a live ‘organic’ standpoint.
They are counted completely different. This then translates to a different beat and feel.
Especially when you start adding live “groove” and swing.

Well, no, I’m looking at it from a music theory standpoint then relating that to how one would work with it in a sequencer.

I’m still not even slightly clear on how you would count 7/8 as two counts of four as you indicated in your post.

No rules my friend.
Just throwing out speculative ideas.

“One and Two One and Two One” ... if you please… 

No rules? Sure. But I’m like 99% sure that 4+4 doesn’t equal 7.

Ok.

When people play music, they work with counts… They count in their head so that they know when they have to play which note…

With a x/4 rhythm, a 1/4th note is one count. And a 1/8th note would be 1/2 count.
With a x/8 rhythm, a 1/8th note is one count. And so a 1/4th note would be 2 counts.

The x means how much counts you have in 1 ‘bar’.

So with a 7/8 beat, you have 7 counts. It could be something like a 1/2nd note (=4/8) and a 1/4th (=2/8) note and a 1/8th note (all together = 7/8). So you go like 1 2 3 4 ( that was ur 1/2nd note) 5 6 (that was ur 1/4th note) 7 (and that was ur 1/8th notes 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 etc. (but this is quite difficult cause you tend to count to 8 AND you have to make these 7 counts in the same time period in which you would normally make 8 counts).

With a 7/4 beat, you still have 7 counts, but now a 1/4th note is 1 count. So if you want to play the same thing as before, a 1/2nd note will be 2 counts, a 1/4th note is 1 count and the 1/8th not is 0.5 counts. So you end up playing the same in only 3,5 counts. It will sound twice as fast! You can play that same thing twice in one bar, so you will have 7 counts.

So I guess that a 7/8 with twice the speed = 7/4. Or the other way around, a 7/4 played twice as slow is a 7/8. But I think in electronic music this makes no difference at all cause you can set the speed with your computer and I don’t know if you’d bother with how many notes go in one bar and how much counts they take and such But it does make a difference when you play sheet music or whrn you play live, I think!

So yeah I agree with both paranoidmoonduck and Cloudwalker But you can’t have 8 counts in a 7/8! (one and two and three and four as a 7/8, I’m sorry I also don’t understand that?)

ps. Invisible man does indeed sound like a 7/8 (or a 7/4 )

Whats not to get?
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 | 1 & 2 & 3 & 4
It’s still seven ‘counts’ per measure.

It makes it more interesting when you count oddball timesigs differently.
Especially this 15/16 tune I’m working on.
“1 . & . 2 . & . 3 . & . 4 . &”

Ahh of course.. Sorry