in that way, a western composer might continue the pitches and timbres that are in his ear since birth but with the added resource of a new compositional technique.”
Shit does that mean as I was born into a world of Abba, Julio Ingelias and many more that I can write, I should continue with those pitches etc?
Like you hear some new kind of music that inspires you, but you are not allowed to ever use that inspiration because it hasn’t been “in your ear since birth”?
According to Buddhism, we die and are reborn every moment of our existence.
Problem solved.
Like you hear some new kind of music that inspires you, but you are not allowed to ever use that inspiration because it hasn’t been “in your ear since birth”?
According to Buddhism, we die and are reborn every moment of our existence.
Problem solved.
Phew thanks for the save CW. I was worried I was going to have to reproduce Waterloo and Dancing Queen.
(...) in that way, a western composer might continue the pitches and timbres that are in his ear since birth but with the added resource of a new compositional technique.”
does that mean you can’t ever let something new into your mind? Like you hear some new kind of music that inspires you, but you are not allowed to ever use that inspiration because it hasn’t been “in your ear since birth”?
That does sound like a really scary theory to me…
tryptonaut, you have a point. but let me try to translate reich’s statement to “ineffable shpongolese”:
for example, indian music divides the octave in 22 steps. to just squeeze them into our western twelve-semitones-per-octave tempered tuning-system is kind of violent. the ragas have their spiritual meaning and are only allowed at a certain time or season. to just take them and make a dance-track out of them is violent too. it abuses the spirituality of the music.
but maybe you can find something in the structure of indian music, that you can use, like for example the additive rhythms you can find there, which may let you discover something inspired by that, but which is your own.
do I have to add, that of course your own culture is richer than abba-pop?
(...) in that way, a western composer might continue the pitches and timbres that are in his ear since birth but with the added resource of a new compositional technique.”
does that mean you can’t ever let something new into your mind? Like you hear some new kind of music that inspires you, but you are not allowed to ever use that inspiration because it hasn’t been “in your ear since birth”?
That does sound like a really scary theory to me…
tryptonaut, you have a point. but let me try to translate reich’s statement to “ineffable shpongolese”:
for example, indian music divides the octave in 22 steps. to just squeeze them into our western twelve-semitones-per-octave tempered tuning-system is kind of violent. the ragas have their spiritual meaning and are only allowed at a certain time or season. to just take them and make a dance-track out of them is violent too. it abuses the spirituality of the music.
but maybe you can find something in the structure of indian music, that you can use, like for example the additive rhythms you can find there, which may let you discover something inspired by that, but which is your own.
do I have to add, that of course your own culture is richer than abba-pop?
“but maybe you can find something in the structure of indian music, that you can use, like for example the additive rhythms you can find there, which may let you discover something inspired by that, but which is your own.”????
So according to your rules (or rather your interpretation of a set of rules self-imposed by reich at one time), we are only allowed to use “something in the structure of indian music”? For me, ANYTHING is allowed - there are no rules in music… whatever influences you is whatever speaks to you personally…. so at no point for example, did i use an indian sample that is using quarter-tones and quantize it to a western scale….in fact all the indian samples we used on in-effable were sung by locals from jaipur, over a drone in D on my laptop…. i didn’t have to re-tune them to a 12 tone scale at all, as they both sang it in the way you hear on the record…. also the raga they were singing is not a particularly spiritual one in any case… not that i would give a shit about that anyway - i would use a christian hymn (perhaps the closest thing to a ‘spiritual raga’ we are subjected to in the west, and surely not off-limits under your rules of separating east and west, as i was born in london and had a christening n stuff and it uses the simplest of western pitches and timbres) if it touched my heart emotionally, and i felt i could make something interesting not bound to any one culture…. except the bizarre culture of shpongleland
The world is multi-cultural now… And just because i quoted steve reich as an influence, it doesn’t mean i have to BE him… he is a classical composer, can probably read musical score (which i am sure also affects how one would write also), and classical musicians are notorious for only being able to follow rules or dots, and not great when it comes to improvisation….(surely not true in reich’s case). I hate rules, can’t read score, and consider it daft and slightly insulting in an extremely patronising way that you are accusing me of bastardising indian music - i’m not creating indian music, i’m not writing in quarter tone scales, i’m not recording in quarter tone scales and converting it to 12 tone scales, and i’m not writing according to some spiritual dogma and nor am i disrespecting other people’s spirituality….so when you say i am “abusing the spirituality of the music”, perhaps you could clarify that? And let us know at which particular time or season the ragas you are referring to SHOULD be listened to?
P.S…. Willhelm Reich is far cooler anyway! And your interpretation of the words of Steve Reich sound a little too 3rd Reich for me! Musical Purity…. Racial Purity…Hmmmm….
P.S…. Willhelm Reich is far cooler anyway! And your interpretation of the words of Steve Reich sound a little too 3rd Reich for me! Musical Purity…. Racial Purity…Hmmmm….
So according to your rules (or rather your interpretation of a set of rules self-imposed by reich at one time), we are only allowed to use “something in the structure of indian music”? For me, ANYTHING is allowed - there are no rules in music… whatever influences you is whatever speaks to you personally…. so at no point for example, did i use an indian sample that is using quarter-tones and quantize it to a western scale….in fact all the indian samples we used on in-effable were sung by locals from jaipur, over a drone in D on my laptop…. i didn’t have to re-tune them to a 12 tone scale at all, as they both sang it in the way you hear on the record…. also the raga they were singing is not a particularly spiritual one in any case… not that i would give a shit about that anyway - i would use a christian hymn (perhaps the closest thing to a ‘spiritual raga’ we are subjected to in the west, and surely not off-limits under your rules of separating east and west, as i was born in london and had a christening n stuff and it uses the simplest of western pitches and timbres) if it touched my heart emotionally, and i felt i could make something interesting not bound to any one culture…. except the bizarre culture of shpongleland
The world is multi-cultural now… And just because i quoted steve reich as an influence, it doesn’t mean i have to BE him… he is a classical composer, can probably read musical score (which i am sure also affects how one would write also), and classical musicians are notorious for only being able to follow rules or dots, and not great when it comes to improvisation….(surely not true in reich’s case). I hate rules, can’t read score, and consider it daft and slightly insulting in an extremely patronising way that you are accusing me of bastardising indian music - i’m not creating indian music, i’m not writing in quarter tone scales, i’m not recording in quarter tone scales and converting it to 12 tone scales, and i’m not writing according to some spiritual dogma and nor am i disrespecting other people’s spirituality….so when you say i am “abusing the spirituality of the music”, perhaps you could clarify that? And let us know at which particular time or season the ragas you are referring to SHOULD be listened to?
P.S…. Willhelm Reich is far cooler anyway! And your interpretation of the words of Steve Reich sound a little too 3rd Reich for me! Musical Purity…. Racial Purity…Hmmmm….
hey simon, first of all let me say that I respect your work, I’ve been listening to “nothing lasts” a lot, and I’m grateful for it. so if I criticise the new shpongle-record, I do it because I care.
I’m surprised at how you criticise my reflections on the influence of different cultures, but at the same time seem to reject the culture of so-called “classical music”. this distinction between “classical” composers and “popular” musicians has in my opinion been starting to become obsolete quite a while ago. I hope it will lose its meaning even more in the future. personally I’m a musician who feels inspired by both bach and coltrane, beethoven and black sabbath, stravinsky and shpongle. I think you’re a part of this process, and if you can’t read music, you’re in good company with other people.
I’m not saying that it’s wrong to “mix” or “fuse together” different genres, styles or cultures. but I know it can be a tricky thing to do and can lead to embarassing results. I don’t think anybody needs something like “the vienna symphonic orchestra play the beatles” for example. or yngwie malmsteen’s “influence” of bach - which in truth is a few baroque clichés played on the electric guitar. I’m not comparing those examples to your work, I’m trying to illustrate the traps.
if you’re looking for an expert in ragas or indian music in general, I’m not the right person for that, but I’m sure you can find some in your area.
rock on!
ps: I even prefer marcel reich-ranicki. far superior!
hey simon, first of all let me say that I respect your work, I’ve been listening to “nothing lasts” a lot, and I’m grateful for it. so if I criticise the new shpongle-record, I do it because I care.
I’m surprised at how you criticise my reflections on the influence of different cultures, but at the same time seem to reject the culture of so-called “classical music”. this distinction between “classical” composers and “popular” musicians has in my opinion been starting to become obsolete quite a while ago. I hope it will lose its meaning even more in the future. personally I’m a musician who feels inspired by both bach and coltrane, beethoven and black sabbath, stravinsky and shpongle. I think you’re a part of this process, and if you can’t read music, you’re in good company with other people.
I’m not saying that it’s wrong to “mix” or “fuse together” different genres, styles or cultures. but I know it can be a tricky thing to do and can lead to embarassing results. I don’t think anybody needs something like “the vienna symphonic orchestra play the beatles” for example. or yngwie malmsteen’s “influence” of bach - which in truth is a few baroque clich
To you and yours too. I got granddad K to watch a bit of the DVD on Christmas day, after the Queen ofc, he is 95 but he’s like Raja (only much older) he liked it a bit but didn’t ask to come see you. Result, me thinks.
I also urge you to look into Wilhelm Reich…. (i’m sure you know of him already, and his ‘orgone accumulator’) he’s not a composer, but a sort of mad pervy psychiatrist… but his work on cloudbusting and orgone is quite interesting and anyone who is imprisoned and has tons of their books burned has got to have something going on!
Thanks for listening
x x x
How funny you mentioned Wilhelm Reich. In researching the chemtrail phenomenon, it seems almost impossible not to stumble upon mention -and most likely total distortion of- Reich’s experiments with “orgone” and “cloudbusting”...It’s very intriguing, and seems almost beyond the scope of “hard science” in explaining how it works, if it really does. So far, no you tube vids to my knowledge.. Love to see one in action!
