flavius - 18 November 2009 04:47 PM

it’s quite limiting.

You believe belief is quite limiting, eh…? 

Cloudwalker - 18 November 2009 04:56 PM

flavius - 18 November 2009 04:47 PM

it’s quite limiting.

You believe belief is quite limiting, eh…? 

nah i don’t really believe anything

Well…did you know that 1/2 of the team that ‘discovered’ DNA strands was on LSD at the time?   Pretty sure that changed a lot of people’s beliefs/perceptions of the universe.

belief is a tricky thing because so many people’s identity and self-security is tied up in their belief structure.  Religious fundamentalism is imo the biggest scourge on our planet and needs to die if we as a race are to reach the next level.

I am confused by your statements however, perhaps you could elaborate a little bit…you float the idea of belief structures impeding ‘productivity’ and while I would 150% agree with you in relation to fundamentalist interpretations of religion I fail to see how entertaining the notion of alternate dimensions and entities lessens your productivity?

As long as you don’t have the arrogance to assume that your point of view or conceptualization of the universe is THE RIGHT ONE then you’re in the clear as far as I’m concerned…as I said, it would be incredibly hypocritical of me to state ‘x exists because I saw it in a DMT trip’ because everything is up to interpretation.

Here’s a fun story from Gaian Mind festival 09…

I’m wandering around meeting people and I come across a group of people sitting in front of their tents and I hear the word “DMT” so I introduce myself and sit down…I love hearing people’s experiences.

Dude said that he was smoking DMT with Alex Grey (cool enough in itself imo), passes through the color barrier into ‘another dimension’ (his words), and he recognizes that he is in fact inhabiting the body of another entity.  Both he and the entity realize this at the same time, and then understand that they do not need to keep this state going in order for said Dude to continue to exist in this space.

So, they split from each other and observe each other.  Through telepathic/visual communication Dude says to entity “I am an artist.”  Entity says “Oh yeah! me too!  check this out!”....

Entity does a back flip and while he’s in the air his body melts into liquid metal (think bad guy from T2) and then turns into Dude’s sound equipment from back home…but with subtle and intelligent changes.

Dude then proceeds to make music using the entity as a conduit. 

Dude eventually comes back to this reality and over the next couple of months re-designs his equipment to incorporate some of the aspects of the entity (he mentioned something about Sacred Geometry, idk)

Seems that not only was that experience anything but limiting, it succeeded in making him much more productive!  I’m sure that Simon would say that DMT has made him more productive…

There are countless examples of slightly similar experiences if you ask around…and I have yet to encounter someone who has anything remotely close to a fundamentalist attitude toward existence and reality

How can you ‘turn a blind eye to the mechanism of the illusion’ by the way when the interaction between psychedelics and the brain is ANYTHING but explainable and understood…I don’t really get that.

Seems like you are going out of your way to de-validate any potential realizations that you might encounter along the way on your psychedelic journeys for fear of what?  Being open to certain possibilities?

edit:  Chris Rock had it right…“I just think it’s better to have an idea. You can change an idea; changing a belief is trickier. People die for it, people kill for it….”

Oh, and if your other name is “Okyup” and I just got trolled again…well played.

see i’m not that great at expressing myself, especially over the interwebs.

all i was trying to say is that i don’t think psychedelics offer us any significant insight into the universe, that’s what i meant by they are limiting and not very productive.

what i do believe, however, is that psychedelics offer an amazing insight into the workings of our mids… as a collective and as individuals. that is where i think their true value lies.

the story you mentioned sounds phenomenal, i haven’t been fortunate enough to have such a deep DMT experience, mostly because it’s very hard to come by where i live.

Chris Rock had it right

If psychedelics offer amazing insight into the workings of our minds….and we use our minds in order to analyze the universe in order to more fully understand it…

see where I’m going with this?

In my estimation our minds and the universe are intrinsically connected…as in anything that amplifies the power of or alters the behavior of our mind has the potential to offer us insight into pretty much anything that the mind can think about or contemplate…one of those many things being the universe!

No DMT near you, eh?

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mimosa/mimosa_chemistry1.shtml

haha unfortunately wrong geography. i’m located somewhere in australasia.

i’ve actually managed to make decent mescaline from san pedros in people’s yards around my neighbourhood. i will be going to s america next month, including universo parallelo, so hopefully i’ll get a chance.

nevertheless i can assure you that regardless of the quality or quantity of DMT i’d take, i don’t have the scientific knowledge of the people who discovered DNA or any respected astrophysicist, so i still doubt that i’ll come across any significant insights into the workings of the universe. i probably will think i did, though.

Oh, well by that metric neither will I lol, I mean…I enjoy reading about or conceptualizing mathematical concepts or theories that seek to explain how our reality works, but its not like im gonna do a shitload of DMT and suddenly theory of relativity^2 is gonna pop out ^_^

I do think that our collective world of science would be much more interesting and fruitful if all the top lab-rats were exposed to LSD/DMT at least once in their lives

and just because you live in australasia doesn’t mean you can’t obtain the plants required to make DMT…the internet is your friend….

this is an interesting discussion - one that i’m sure mckenna will be most proud of!

i will say this… there is an interesting possible correlation between the workings and complexity of our brains and the infinity of the universe. we create our own reality inside our minds… and we can project that or hallucinate it outside of it, a phenomenon often occurring on psychedelics as they dissolve the brain’s auto-limiting perception of reality. to say when does our own projection seizes, and incoming input (from another dimension?) starts, is tricky. is it really impossible for the mind to create things as alien or as complex as some of the hallucination many of us have had?

its a good question. we would all like to believe there is somewhere else we can enter through our mind, a gateway residing deep inside, perhaps no bigger than a dot, but opening into infinity. a dot, inside an infinity, leading to infinity. it makes perfect sense, because once u’ve got infinity… like a fractal, its always there. u cannot have a stop sign somewhere. but i also think a lot of people fail to recognize what is their own creation and tend to attribute it to external source. machines elves? i think that’s a bunch of bollocks—but i haven’t done DMT so…

i have hallucinated extensively, though. i have seen goblins and elves and all sorts of terrifying, spooky, hilarious and strange creatures—all product of my imagination, i know. but there is a certain level of experience, not a perception but an actual feeling, when u get to that zone of fractal - mandala epiphany that i’m sure many of u have experienced… when u know its all too real and all too impossible for u to have come up with it urself, right? so where the hell is it coming from? what is it? etc etc.

i dont wonna say its another dimension, but i dont believe its internal. we can access it internally, but its not coming from us. this image captures, somewhat, the intricacy of that effect… kind of like getting sucked into a wormhole tunnel with this at the end, but the colors are all limited here, it should be full spectrum….

my personal favorite way of explaining what a DMT color wall is like…

take an infinite number of flat glass sheets, stack them all on top of each other.

Now, place on each one of them a sentient, growing, living, breathing entity in the form of a fractal

stand directly underneath this construction

now spin them all independently of one another ^_^

Personally I have never hallucinated something into existence (open eye, that is) that wasn’t there to begin with, with the exception of texture changes and the appearance of geometric patterns…like the sky will become chromatic pink and grow a huge fractal in the middle or something

but its not like the shoes im wearing turn into blue ducks and start talking to me or anything crazy like that.  One can dream, though.

willsanquil - 18 November 2009 06:23 PM

One can dream, though.

i love acid flashbacks in my sleep

willsanquil - 18 November 2009 05:21 PM

Oh, and if your other name is “Okyup” and I just got trolled again…well played.

btw i’m a little bit insulted by this statement. i love shpongle and i love psychedelics.

just wanted to make that clear

hahaha I felt myself getting a little too serious so I thought i’d lighten it up a bit

no actual offense intended!

i’m actually in the process of setting up an online community (really just a forum) for people to share their psychedelic experiences, best settings, music, etc. it will be called trips for tipping . net

haha thats a sweet name for sure