pointykitty - 24 March 2010 01:44 AM

You get 14,581 hits on Pubmed.org when you search the keywords “vaccine efficacy,” so obviously, it’s a tried and tested system.  I’m not saying you should blindly accept it. I’m just saying, weigh the evidence.

For the sake of keeping the science-babble to a minimum, i’ll make this brief. PK, the use of attenuated antigen in prophylaxis is a tried and tested system. What’s the need for toxic adjuvants such as mercury and squalene? Or forget about neurotoxicity, look at the role of squalene in initiating an autoimmune response.

pointykitty - 24 March 2010 01:44 AM

Vaccines do not cause autism.  Vaccines do not make people infertile.  You ingest more mercury eating swordfish than you do getting your seasonal flu shot.

They might not be proven to cause autism, but the evidence for demyelination is compelling, for instance: http://jcn.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/25/3/321 What’.s your source for the statement on mercury levels?

quote author=“pointykitty” date=“1269391463”]
Personally, I trust the 14,581 hits on Pubmed more than whatever Bill Gates might have to say.  Vaccines don’t make you infertile—viruses do.
<3

That doesn’t make sense. Gates didn’t state any facts or stats. What he did make was a curious remark about using vaccines to reduce population growth. The only choice you have is to trust if he said what he meant or not. As for the remark on an “HIV scare”
directed to “dumbos”, if that is in fact the reason for the name, fair enough, but we’re not exactly flies on the wall at Twisted. There’s still better names out there that can actually attract people to buy the album like previous titles have. Think about it. After all the incessant 24/7 blabber about swine flu and vaccines all winter, if you didn’t know who YB was, would you reach for an album with that name? Call it something that does the music justice, not evoke images of poison and pain. Whatever, can’t wait to listen

There’s plenty of information just one Google-search away on the use and misuse of mercurcy and squalene in vaccines. Yes, including a lot of sources that should be deemed trustworthy (inculding scientific papers). Unless you would like to believe that every source that contradicts your beliefs is either very ignorant, naive and dumb

”...fair enough, but we

Vaccine is a GREAT title! And this thread only confirms it in my mind… People will always see what they want to see, which is why for Alex it conjures up images of poison and sterilization and a Machiavellian conspiracy to control population, and for Parissa it is an attack on the incredible medical advances humans have made and take for granted in the spoiled western hemisphere of the Globe, thus making her job more difficult.

It’s controversial. I like that. When we told Storm Thorgerson the title, he got extremely animated and excited, saying that it’s a brilliant title, which made him think of a frog in South America that is used by local people for protection, by licking the skin, a bit like the Colorado River Toad which releases tryptamines in its venom. I know the lateral thinkers among us will get it… and Storm is one of my favourite lateral thinkers, so he may well do the artwork. This isn’t confirmed yet.

Anyway, to throw some fuel on the fire, i’d like to add 2 cents about medical Vaccines. I’ll ignore the Bill Gates thing, as i don’t know the context or humour or meaning behind it. But i am fascinated by some of the myths about Vaccine ingredients, such as mercury…

Mercury IS added to Vaccines… in the form of ethylmercury, as part of the preservative ‘thimerosal’. Mercury in it’s elemental state is a lethal neurotoxin, but when it’s bound as an organic ethyl, it’s harmless, being easily filtered out of your body by your kidneys and expelled in your poo. This is one reason thimerosal has always been such a safe and popular preservative, used in tattoo inks among other things. Methylmercury is different, being more toxic, but it has never been included in any vaccine. However methylmercury and ethylmercury sound similar, so i can see why people get scared and confused.

http://www.nature.com/clpt/journal/v82/n6/abs/6100407a.html

There are other scary sounding chemicals in vaccines…. for example Formaldehyde.  This seems scary because we see jars of it in museums and science-fiction movies preserving foetuses, freaks, animals and alien babies. Formaldehyde is used to sterilize things, and to stop the vaccine becoming contaminated before it is even used. It is found naturally in the human body, being a by-product of digestion and metabolism… so if you are about to be injected with a vaccine containing formaldehyde, you already have way more of it already in your body than you will receive from the vaccine, and it is easily broken down.

Aluminium (Aluminum, to our linguistically-challenged american friends   )  is also found in several vaccines. It is used as an adjuvant (a bit like a catalyst, to irritate your body and cause your immune system to react and produce MORE antibodies. That’s how vaccines work… they activate our own extremely complex immune system). Aluminium IS a neurotoxin, but only at amounts far, far higher than that normally found in our bodies, in the environment, and certainly in vaccines. Just by living and breathing on a planet like Earth where aluminium is the third most abundant element in the upper continental crust, the average person consumes 3-8mg of aluminium per day, of which less than 1 percent is absorbed into the blood. Vaccine doses are allowed to contain a maximum of .85mg of aluminium; so the maximum dose of aluminium in a vaccine is about the same as the maximum that might get into everyone’s blood in a normal day (about what’s contained in 33 ounces of infant formula). Most vaccines contain less than this.

Some food for thought…. i enjoy the controversy…. but dislike the hysteria… welcome the debate… i’m fascinated by science…

As an album title the medical connotations are irrelevant… as i said, the lateral thinkers will get it… but i certainly like the idea of taking something that may at first seem unpalatable, that provokes a strong response, but ultimately provides you with protection against a far greater Evil…... I think for an album such as this, where have vocals on every track, and it sounds like a band… it might upset ‘the trancers’ at first, but over time i trust it will reveal itself as a complex album, with longevity, passion, musicality, weirdness and all the other things i love in a good record…. Vaccine seems very appropriate as a name, to me, at least….

Hopefully i’ll see some you at Cargo next Tuesday! XXX

Revenant - 25 March 2010 07:55 AM

You seem to ignore any positive connotation of Vaccine…

Thank you, Revenant!

The problem with prophylaxis is Toxicity. You’re introducing a toxin into your body for which you already have immunity. Why? Without any reason for it, all it’s doing is poisoning your body - regardless of whether the mercury and squalene in it are sane additives or not.

We have the flight or fight response in a world where escape and violence are frowned upon but we have standing armies to protect us from imaginary threats to nationalism and now we have prophylactics to protect us from diseases that might depopulate the world in a jiffy (in the cosmic scheme of things).

It’s part of a gestalt - the paranoia. And the paranoia is reserved for those who have forgotten how to live on Earth. Look at the Kogi - now they’re clever foxes! They’re saying, Wake up you destructive babies, we’re all getting fucked in the bargain!

Oh my God, Simon—- you quoted Nature.  Oh God.  That makes me wanna hug you so badly.  You’re my adjuvant, my aluminium -  you irritate me as to activate me.  Thank you (... i guess?)...  Just don’t deposit in plaques in my brain and catalyze a case of Alzheimer’s… (actually the aluminium found in brains affected by Alzheimer’s is so far only found to be correlational and not causational… but personally, I still made a point of purging my kitchen of any cookware made of aluminum!)

Well, I am humbled. Someone did their homework.  I

pointykitty - 25 March 2010 11:44 PM

Well, I am humbled. Someone did their homework.  I’m eager to have the chance to sit quietly and shut up and have you tell me more about vaccines.  Or Vaccine.
........

So, Vaccine it is.  Are you guys also gonna start performing onstage wearing white coats??...

<3

Would you like to hear about the Bovine Albumen? or Human Albumen?  I’m sure you know already…. and enough talk about the gross side of Vaccines…  talking of gross, i just bought an antique victorian post-mortem kit, a book of surgical needles (the scariest being “Keith’s abdominal 4’” and the most tribal being “Martin’s Uterine 1”) and 4 antique apocethary bottles of ‘poison’ - belladonna being my favourite…. not that i have tried any of them   but there IS some residue of white powder in a couple of them… could be useful for a rainy day

As for performing wearing white coats, we’ll leave that to you medical peeps….

Really?!  I love surgical instruments!  ... No way - you found an original old school Belladonna vial??  Atropa belladonna - deadly nightshade - named due to the scopolamine and hyoscyamine that induce delirium and hallucinations when ingested systemically (though you risk your life because the psychoactive dose is very close to the lethal dose), but administered as eyedrops, muscurinic acetylcholine receptor antagonism induces mydriasis . . .  dilated pupils blown like you’re high, and somehow large pupils make ladies look pretty . . .  So the ladies use to retreat from festivities not just to powder up but to dilate their pupils . . .  If the eyes are the windows to the soul, then belladonna makes the soul more visible . . . 

Mh, but hermits like to be invisible.

No, Si - I don’t know already -  do tell me more . . .

Well, it seems Storm will be doing the artwork

Hallucinogen - 25 March 2010 08:31 AM

Anyway, to throw some fuel on the fire, i’d like to add 2 cents about medical Vaccines. I’ll ignore the Bill Gates thing, as i don’t know the context or humour or meaning behind it.

Perhaps seeing the humor in Gates funding development of sweat-triggered vaccines using nano-technology to apply them to people without using injections (read involuntarily) might help you understand the humor in his above remark. Or maybe the funding he’s putting towards “temporary” male castration is more obviously hilarious.

Hallucinogen - 25 March 2010 08:31 AM

But i am fascinated by some of the myths about Vaccine ingredients, such as mercury…

Mercury IS added to Vaccines… in the form of ethylmercury, as part of the preservative ‘thimerosal’. Mercury in it’s elemental state is a lethal neurotoxin, but when it’s bound as an organic ethyl, it’s harmless, being easily filtered out of your body by your kidneys and expelled in your poo. This is one reason thimerosal has always been such a safe and popular preservative, used in tattoo inks among other things. Methylmercury is different, being more toxic, but it has never been included in any vaccine. However methylmercury and ethylmercury sound similar, so i can see why people get scared and confused.

The Great Thimerosol Cover-Up. Pay special attention to the section about Eli-Lilly.

Hallucinogen - 25 March 2010 08:31 AM

http://www.nature.com/clpt/journal/v82/n6/abs/6100407a.html

This looks like a meta-analysis and I really doubt you’ve even read it. Show me an actual study proving thimerosol’s effectiveness. I know you can’t.

You might also like to read this interview with Dr. Boyd Haley, director for the World Association for Vaccine Education.

Hallucinogen - 25 March 2010 08:31 AM

There are other scary sounding chemicals in vaccines…. for example Formaldehyde.  This seems scary because we see jars of it in museums and science-fiction movies preserving foetuses, freaks, animals and alien babies. Formaldehyde is used to sterilize things, and to stop the vaccine becoming contaminated before it is even used. It is found naturally in the human body, being a by-product of digestion and metabolism… so if you are about to be injected with a vaccine containing formaldehyde, you already have way more of it already in your body than you will receive from the vaccine, and it is easily broken down.

Sure, and while you’re defending formaldehyde, let’s defend the use of aspartame in vaccines as well. It breaks down into formic acid and formaldehyde, but surely in doses not serious enough to merit concern, right? Citing the individual doses of these toxins does not account for their synergistic effects.

If you’ve never heard of it, research “serum sickness”. Serum sickness provokes an antigen (foreign animal serum)/ antibody (immunoglobulin) reaction in the form of IgA, IgD, IgE, IgG, etc. that can create circulating immune complexes that basically cause vasculitis in everywhere from the kidneys to the brain. Vaccines cause serum sickness. Couple that with an increased synergistic immune response from toxic adjuvants and you have all manner of diseases, most notably glomerulonephritis leading to end-stage kidney failure.

http://www.nvic.org/Doctors-Corner/Aluminum-and-Vaccine-Ingredients.aspx

Read also ICD-999 Vaccine Induced Diseases, the Chronic Serum Sickness Postulate

You’re basically claiming there’s no proof that these toxins are unsafe, which is unfortunately the MO of science and academia. There’s no precautionary principle that places the burden of proof on the manufacturers. Studies must be done to show that these toxins are safe, individually and synergistically, including those that are used to produce toxoid vaccines. Unfortunately, very few of these studies have been done.

Now if you want to put yourself or your kids at risk because some stuffed shirt on the evening news (or school nurse’s office) is screaming about the need to protect yourself from the latest pandemic, despite any conclusive research proving safety and efficacy, and all your knowledge about vaccines has been gleaned from wikipedia and big pharma ads, then have at it. Don’t say you weren’t warned, though.

Hell, it’s as easy as strolling on down to your local strip club.

Hallucinogen - 25 March 2010 08:31 AM

As an album title the medical connotations are irrelevant… as i said, the lateral thinkers will get it… but i certainly like the idea of taking something that may at first seem unpalatable, that provokes a strong response, but ultimately provides you with protection against a far greater Evil…... Vaccine seems very appropriate as a name, to me, at least….

Have to disagree again. The medical and scientific connotations are very relevant. Upon what do you base your assumption that vaccines provide you with “protection against a far greater Evil” and that the vaccine itself is not that far greater Evil? If you realized that, it would kinda blow your rationale for choosing that title out of the water, eh? And the fact you mentioned Benji doesn’t shoot his kids up tells me that half of YB gets it.

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flumps, promoting hiphop in this forum requires courage. i admire that. just kidding.. :D :D
as i considered myself as well allergic to that genre, i’m pretty curious about the album you mentioned. i’ll give it a listen soon.

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